Has aynone else watched this?

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Has aynone else watched this?

Postby somnonaut » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:55 pm

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/doze/

What is wrong with this picture/statement.
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Postby Hypnagogic Hal » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:05 pm

Well, for one thing, the EOG is not "the electrical patterns from the muscles around the eyes." It is created by the electrical potential differences between the retina and the cornea.
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Postby sleepmac » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:46 am

"A single sleep cycle consists of 4 stages of Non-REM sleep followed by a period of REM sleep."


I don't think EVERY sleep cycle consists of 4 stages of Non-REM sleep. More like only a few sleep cycles would have all 4 Non-REM. And generally only in younger folk.

What else am I not seeing in your illustration? :?
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Postby Keith » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:58 am

I think I saw that guy on Jimmy Neutron.
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Ding, ding, ding

Postby somnonaut » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:41 am

Keith wins.
Yes, HH, The EOG thing bothered me too.
I didn't even pick up the 4 cycle thingy Mac. Good catch.

What did you think of the whole Doze family presentation, as a public level foray into sleep education.

There was a blunt evidentiary statement at the first sleep explanation slide where they said that a substance is built up in the body/brain (I forget) and that is what makes us sleepy. Or to that effect. What...process S? Anyone have a clue?
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Re: Ding, ding, ding

Postby sleepadmin » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:47 am

somnonaut wrote:Keith wins.

There was a blunt evidentiary statement at the first sleep explanation slide where they said that a substance is built up in the body/brain (I forget) and that is what makes us sleepy. Or to that effect. What...process S? Anyone have a clue?


Quoted from Review of Sleep Medicine, by Teri Bowman

Adenosine accumulates during prolonged wakefulness in the basal forebrain and in the cerebral cortex, and returns to baseline levels after sleep recovery. It is speculated that adenosine might be the long-suspected, "sleep-inducing substance" mediating the sleep homeostatic drive, gradually accumulating during wakefu and decreasing during sleep.


Also: Caffeine and theophylline, widely available stimulants, increase alertness through an antagonistic effect on the adenosine receptor.

So to recap what drives human sleep:

Circadian rhythms: reset/activated primarily through sunlight and exercise.

Homeostasis: Adenosine builds up in your system making you sleepier as the day goes on.
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The Key phrase is

Postby somnonaut » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:56 am

"It is speculated"

Which to me would mean that a more scientifically responisble description is in order, until true.
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Even sites like

Postby somnonaut » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:18 am

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sleep6.htm
http://www.adenrx.com/about.html

Say it is speculated. And the theory of brain activation levels being indicated by Adenosine does not go into why then does the brain at times during sleep comsume even more energy than during waking? The one chemical model is just too simple, for such a complex system.
Its been around as a cardio agent for while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine
DO Adenosine recipients for cardiac involement report bizarre sleepiness upon administration?
Its use is being investigated and locked down too.
http://www.adenrx.com/property.html

Now as these guys describe it, I can get all teary eyed and approving.
"These adenosine receptors are scattered throughout the body and brain."

http://web.sfn.org/content/Publications ... osine.html

As I have said before, it is a build-up of something at theperiphery and then transmitted to the central system only to be redistributed via CSF to the periphery, to be used not just in the course of using the senses, but just having the senses turned on during wakefulness (Idling if you will) uses the stuff of sleep up, only to need to be redistributed yet once again.
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Chicken! NO EGG! wait.... CHICKEN!

Postby sleepadmin » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:52 am

Everything in American medicine is "speculated." :roll: The greater the process, the more speculation there is.
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adeosine or...more than that

Postby slope » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:01 am

I happen to be working on a paper a great deal of which has to deal with the biochemistry of sleep.

Re: adenosine. As it was correctly noticed by somnonaut, one substance and only one cannot thoroughly explain the mechanism of one's falling asleep or staying asleep. Different structures of the CNS and various neurotransmitters are involved in the sleep/wakefulness mechanism. The quote from Bowman's Review of Sleep Medicine is to oversimplify the physiology of sleep. Its role in human sleep is speculated because research about adenosine and sleep mainly involved cats and dogs. Its actions on human sleep are based more on indirect evidence as suggested by the stimulant effect methylxanthines (i.e., caffeine, theophylline, theobromine) have on the brain. Speaking of mechanism of action, the way methylxanthines exert their pharmacological effects is by blocking the adenosine receptors in the brain and thus causing excitation. More precisely, there are two different types of adenosine receptors in the brain: A1 and A2; these substances competitively antagonize adenosine on the A1 receptor via adenylate cyclase.
So, somnonaut, you were right as to the complexity of biochemical processes underlying the sleep/wakefulness homeostasis.

Re: "DO Adenosine recipients for cardiac involement report bizarre sleepiness upon administration? " No, there is no sleepiness reported after administering adenosine for. let's say, a PSVT (paroxysmal supraventricular tachycardia) episode. And that can be due to a number of reasons, an important one being that adenosine IV is relatively short-lived and does not act on the above-mentioned A1 receptors.
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Postby somnonaut » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:02 pm

Just recalled this discussion...so I post this:
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/147 ... .full.html
"A Paravascular Pathway Facilitates CSF Flow Through
the Brain Parenchyma and the Clearance of Interstitial
Solutes, Including Amyloid b"

"We have identified a brain-wide pathway for fluid transport in mice, which includes the para-arterial influx of subarachnoid CSF into the brain interstitium, followed by the clearance of ISF along large-caliber draining veins. Interstitial bulk flow between these influx and efflux pathways depends upon trans-astrocytic water movement, and the continuous movement of fluid through this system is a critical contributor to the clearance of interstitial solutes, likely including soluble Aβ1–40, from the brain. In light of its dependence on glial water flux, and its subservience of a lymphatic function in interstitial solute clearance, we propose that this system be called the “glymphatic” pathway"
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Re: Has aynone else watched this?

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