Fair Pay Rate, and help on advancement

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Postby FetusInFetu » Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:37 pm

LOL.. no i don't see my self to still be in embryonic form, "fetusinfetu" is the medical term for what they call a fetus inside a fetus, if u have time look it up, its pretty crazy stuff. anyway, i don't have a problem with my Patients, i know how to greet them and make them feel comfortable, i completely explain what the wires are for, what they do, and etc. I've actually been told by another sleep tech not to talk to the patients much because it will cut into time, being that i only get paid for 11 hrs. no matter how long it takes me to get them in and out. and i totally understand how it would take a certain period of time to feel comfortable, but i guess im a people person, blessed with the gift of gab. so conversation is no problem. i also understand the concept of apnea, and cpap and sleep depravation when my Patients ask me questions, i answer them to the best of my knowledge, and if i cant, i find out-and get back to them. as for informing them of my training, i don't tell my situation because it will probably make them feel uncomfortable. i tell them i have adequate training and that's that. as for being taken advantage, i cant really do anything, since i have no real experience, if i start b*tching now, i could lose my job, and there goes my OJT. i figure the longer period of time i have under my belt, will be useful for either another job as a sleep tech at another lab or hospital or what ever. i may be getting the short end of the stick now, but at least i got my foot in the door, and i have a chance to get experience and hopefully it pays off.

I just want to know the process of climbing up the ladder, and what kind of pay can be expected. What kind of training well help me, if there is a certification for sleep techs etc.
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Rant, I don't think so...

Postby somnonaut » Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:22 pm

I did not rant. It is you using bold. and angry face emoticons (4). I do not "hate RRTs' I just wish they knew their place, instead of thinking they can do everything with their limited training. They know how to do what they do, and it is not Sleep Medicine for those not trained in Sleep Medicine

I agree with you "sleeforthought," it is the doctor/lab who is at fault here. I wonder what discipline the doctors are from? Neuro, Pulmo, Psych, Endochrin, Gastro, Cardio, ENT. other? Fetus... care to share this?

Fetus... use those AASM sites I posted to find out the typical ladder to the training and progression of staff in sleep.
Also go to the BRPT site http://www.brpt.org for info regarding the recognized credential in the field "RPSGT." At least recognized by the National Allied Health field, but not yet by the wonderful state you live in.
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Postby FetusInFetu » Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:34 pm

Thank u for your help.
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to fetusinfetu

Postby leo boyle » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:08 pm

LOL.. no i don't see my self to still be in embryonic form, "fetusinfetu" is the medical term for what they call a fetus inside a fetus,

I did look it up and that is why I was curious as to why you call yourself by that term.You can tell me to mind my own business but I either thought you were making the fetus analogy with your embryonic career in sleep med or that perhaps you were one of a twin.Just curious my friend.

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Re: Some useful answers....

Postby Ripvanwinkle » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:27 pm

somnonaut wrote:Rip...20 Yrs experience, how many in sleep?
I have 20+ years experience in sleep medicine and started in this field thru OJT similar to FetusInFetu, luckily not 3 pts/tech. How is he/she to know...But I digress.

Being from a respiratory background can only help marginally, and some feel it actually could be harmful. Respiratory training does not offer direct sleep medicine knowledge unless one seeks that avenue of educaton for themself through a possible elective within their respiratory training, and that offering hasn't even fully started yet. Or the Respiratory trained person could obtain requisite sleep training through other methods, maybe even, Ahh! :shock: OJT, heaven forbid.


4 ys sleep, AAS in RT, CRTT March 1986, RRT #29,620 Dec 1987.

I recall during college the conflict between people who were respiratory OJTs & the RT students. The OJTs were afraid we were going to take their jobs away. They had the same option of a formal RT education, some employers even offered to pay for college for the OJTs, some accepted, most refused. The OJTs figured they knew their job, knew HOW to do their jobs; some were very good, some were VERY dangerous.

One main difference between an educated RT & an OJT is that the RT knows what & WHY or WHY NOT to do something, whereas the OJT may know how but likely doesn't know why or why not to do something.

RT education involves hours of Anatomy & Physiology as well as Pathophysiology, at least one course/quarter or semester for 2 ys minimum, as well as EKG analysis, identifying breathing disorders, patient assessment including history, mechanical ventilation, pharmacology, etc.

I have years of experience doing cardiac stress tests -both treadmill & pharmaceutical- as well as Holter & Event monitor application & analysis, and EEGs. As for mechanical ventilation -which encompasses CPAP, PEEP, Pressure Control, SIMV, CMV, AC, etc. from Neonates to Pediatric to Adult, I (and the AARC) believe I am qualified to perform sleep studies & polysomnography.

somnonaut, I see the same attitude in you as I saw in the RT OJTs years ago. RT is HERE & WE ARE HERE TO STAY!
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No offense to anyone...

Postby SCNVsleep » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:23 pm

But pleeeeease don't let this become the freaking letters page in Advance.

While I don't agree in whole with either Somnonaut or RipVW, there are nuggets of, what I perceive to be, accuarcy in what each of you are saying.

Feel free to start a new thread to debate OJT vs. School, or what RTs are taught in school about narcolepsy, PLMD, RLS, RBD or any other sleep disorder besides OSA. Just please don't hijack fetus's topic.

BTW - for all of you who feel fetus is being taken advantage of for 3 pts a night @ $12/hr...does that mean I was fiscally raped for getting $9 and hour when I first started in sleep, doing 3 pts a night and 1 1/2 weeks training? Just curious.... :mrgreen:
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Postby Rick » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:15 pm

Yes, SCNV, fetus IS being taken advantage of and I think you should seek some counseling and aftercare because it sounds like they did not even use lubricant when they raped you. :wink:
Fetus, the whole of sleep testing is wide open for you. Those links Somnonaut gave you are the first paving stones on your pathway through and up into this field. Becoming registered in Sleep is the best first step and some people don't require school to learn enough to get through this exam.
Good Luck, and welcome. You really are being taken advantage of, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine (AASM) has a position paper on the ratio of patients' to technologists (2 pts to 1 tech).
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Re: No offense to anyone...

Postby Ripvanwinkle » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:22 pm

SCNVSleep wrote:But pleeeeease don't let this become the freaking letters page in Advance.

While I don't agree in whole with either Somnonaut or RipVW, there are nuggets of, what I perceive to be, accuarcy in what each of you are saying.

Feel free to start a new thread to debate OJT vs. School, or what RTs are taught in school about narcolepsy, PLMD, RLS, RBD or any other sleep disorder besides OSA. Just please don't hijack fetus's topic.

BTW - for all of you who feel fetus is being taken advantage of for 3 pts a night @ $12/hr...does that mean I was fiscally raped for getting $9 and hour when I first started in sleep, doing 3 pts a night and 1 1/2 weeks training? Just curious.... :mrgreen:


Stew -I had my say re OJTs whether RT of ST. I believe another poster put it bluntly when it was mentioned that one person showed their disdain for RTs. I've gotten my fill of "turf wars" from nursing over the years.

Even CNAs have to be certified to wipe butts, so I have little respect for an OJT who thinks he knows more that an educated & credentialed RRT. I'll not hijack this thread but I won't sit back & be belittled by anyone w/o a formal education related to their job.
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Postby Ripvanwinkle » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:30 pm

Rick wrote:Yes, SCNV, fetus IS being taken advantage of and I think you should seek some counseling and aftercare because it sounds like they did not even use lubricant when they raped you. :wink:
Fetus, the whole of sleep testing is wide open for you. Those links Somnonaut gave you are the first paving stones on your pathway through and up into this field. Becoming registered in Sleep is the best first step and some people don't require school to learn enough to get through this exam.
Good Luck, and welcome. You really are being taken advantage of, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine (AASM) has a position paper on the ratio of patients' to technologists (2 pts to 1 tech).


I worked with SCNV -Stew- in Las Vegas doing Polysomnography back in 2001, he knows the Sleep Techs I worked with back there, he knows I know my job whether RT or sleep studies. Stew is just trying to be diplomatic & avoid a confrontation here. I could really care less, I can go anywhere in the country (I'm seting up a lab in the USVI right now as a matter of fact) & get aa position. I could care less what some disgruntled person (Claude) thinks.
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All right now...

Postby SCNVsleep » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:58 pm

Everyone chill...

Mark, please don't flame Claude. He is difficult a lot of the time, but he does make valid points on many topics.

Claude, you DO open yourself up to flaming with your attitude, but the first time we crossed paths, it was due to you flaming someone else. I am jumping in here and asking ALL involved (including myself) to take a step back and not let this get personal. If it does, the thread may (probably will) get locked.

"And thank you for your support."
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Re: All right now...

Postby Ripvanwinkle » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:18 am

SCNVSleep wrote:Everyone chill...

Mark, please don't flame Claude. He is contentious and a PITA a lot of the time, but he does make valid points on many topics.

Claude, you DO open yourself up to flaming with your attitude, but the first time we crossed paths, it was due to you flaming someone else. I am jumping in here and asking ALL involved (including myself) to take a step back and not let this get personal. If it does, the thread may (probably will) get locked.

"And thank you for your support."


Stew -I made my point, I'm finished.

Mark
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Postby Showmesleep » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:23 am

Holy fritoles, guys!!!

Fetus-(i feel wierd calling anyone that) You are getting the shaft, I believe. Bless your heart for your honesty! If your employers don't show more interest in you getting registered and improving yourself, then they obviously aren't giving you or your patients much consideration. Sounds like a sleep on the cheap to me. They should take great interest in your education and knowledge. However, I think $12/hr is fair for a starting OTJ tech. One patient or three. Hope you are getting nice shift differential, though.

Perhaps we should move the RT/OTJ/other stuff to another post? :)
I am thankful that there are RT's in the field. With my neurophys/psg background, I appreciate what they can teach me about OSA and other breathing disorders. However, all other 80+ sleep disorders are out of the scope of practice for an RT. Unless they start teaching sleep as part of RT training? That is probably the only reason I don't think the AARC should have any pull here.

I hope everyone can come to some agreements on this issue, perhaps on another post. I can understand where RT would like to include sleep in their practice, because it DOES need some regulating from SOMEWHERE. I can also understand where all other professions (OTJ/EEG/EKG/RN) feel threatened, because I wouldn't want someone from an unrelated field coming in and telling ME how to do my job. Feels like WWII! :lol:
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About Spelling

Postby Val » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:23 pm

This is general to everyone. You might want to remember about the fact that this is the internet. Spelling and grammer problems can happen if ENGLISH IS NOT SOMEONES FIRST LANGUAGE. I say this as I have a friend who is French and I sometimes see some strange things from her. Writting to me has improved her ability to communicate in writing English. Not wanting to start anything here, just wanting to remind people that not everyone is from the good USA.

As to fetusinfetu.. You did the right thing, asking for help. It is never wrong to ask for help. You need to go to the sites that have already been listed, and read and learn as much as you can. Ask your boss if they will send you to a seminar. Read any books you can get your hands on. One last thing, tell them that the AASM standards are 2 patients to 1 tech. Your being overworked.
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If you're looking to debate...

Postby sleepadmin » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:52 pm

Some posts have been moved to here.

PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD IF IT DOES NOT PERTAIN TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER (post "Respiratory vs OJT" subject matter in the other thread).
Last edited by sleepadmin on Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SleepGod » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:52 pm

Fetus,

Just wanted to give you some insight: First of all, there are many labs around the country that have a 3/1 tech ratio which in my opinion is okay once you have reach a certain experience level. However I don't think you have reached it yet. 4 days of training is completely inadequate for anyone no matter how quickly someone can catch on. There is way too much information to retain to be ready in less than a week. My techs are with supervised training for the first 8 weeks before they are given their own two patients, and then are still considered a trainee for the first 6 months. That is to protect the tech, patient and the lab. I was OJT myself with no prior medical background but becasue of proper training I was able to advance very quickly to where I am today. I was registered within two years and I am currently the Director of a 19 bed company. I have 8 years of total sleep experience, four of those as a director or manager. So what I'm getting at is you can go as far as you want to.

What you need to do is attend all of the workshops or conferences you can and check out a week or two week sleep course to find out where you stand with your knowledge. You can also purchase study guides, flash cards etc.
www.APTWEB.org will have these things available for purchase. You can take your test after 18 months of clinical experience whenever you feel you are ready.

As far as your pay goes, If you were only doing 2 patients then I would say that your pay is in the ball park, however since you are doing 3 I think you are definitely under payed.

Hope some of these comments were helpful, email me if you need any help!
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