New Equipment selection

A forum for the comparison of PSG systems used for attended sleep studies in a sleep center.

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If you had your choice of equipment and money was not an issue, what would your choose and why?

Poll ended at Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:49 pm

Grass Telefactor
0
No votes
Sandman
1
13%
Bio-Logic
1
13%
Nihon Kohen
0
No votes
Xltek
0
No votes
Other
6
75%
 
Total votes : 8

New Equipment selection

Postby sleepyhead2 » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:49 pm

Well, we have started the daunting task of looking for new equipment for our sleep lab and EEG department.

Looked at Xltek yesterday. They claim that most of East coast use their equipment (Mayo Clinic, etc.). Would like to hear from anyone who is currently using this for sleep. It is my understanding that they have done EEG for past 7 yrs and Sleep for past 3 yrs. Most of what they offered can be obtained by other companies also. Didn't appear to have much that had a "Gee,Wow" factor.

Going to look a Nihon Kohden, Bio-Logic, and Grass Telefactor within the next three weeks.

I have reviewed the links for each on this site. I am really needing to know the cons. It is easy to see Pro's especially from a salesman point of view, but am curious as to how many of you wish that you did not have the equipment you are currently using and if so, why not. Poor tech support, poor visual acuity, frozen screen, not user friendly, etc.
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my choice

Postby stars » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:39 am

I probably go to buy Compumedics.
very easy to use with all aspect from recording to scoring.
Grass is very good ,but new 4.6 software so many problem
And compumedics more advance with score.
stars.
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Postby RPSGT88 » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:36 am

Compumedics.
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equip

Postby dreamwatcher » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:13 pm

I have seen several system demo's in the past few weeks. I am currently using Sandman. For the most part, I like it, with a good hook up it is very easy to collect a good study, course that is true with all of them. We've also had very good response fromn tech support, we've only have to use them twice.

We've seen Cadwell, Xltek, Sandman (7.0) and Respironics Alice. Hands down the Respironics rep gave the best demo, he answeredc the most questions, new his system inside out. That went a long way to impress the doc making the decision. I didn't like not being able to re arrange the order of appearance on the montage, but he said it was coming in the next system upgrade. Also, they upgrade your software forever, no charge, no warranty fees. I think thier system wouldn't be as easy to learn, there is a alot going on, almost overkill. I have noticed on the equip forums that their tech support doesn't get great review.

Sandman and I think Cadwell didn't have sample studies on thier demo pc's so you could see what it looked like running. Sandman has this new thing, Sandman in a box, they ship it to you and you can set it up and be running that night. You don't get set up and training that way, but they do have a lot of help and training info within the computer so the techs can check within the system if there is a problem and learn from it as well.

Just a few observations....
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There are more...

Postby somnonaut » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:28 pm

Why do you leave out Medcare with both Somnologica and Rembrandt, two of the most advanced PSG systems in the world?
The real question is what are you coming from,
paper PSG with hand scoring and tabulation
Paper PSG with digital recording but hand tabulation
What is your present milieu?
There are Digital PSg recorders, and then there are PSG systems. Figure out what is you want first.
If you are talking about the most bang for your buck in just setting up a system, then I would go with the cheapest generic recorder (EDF) and that is the Braebon MediPalm www.braebon.com/index2.html and the couple that with the best software I could afford to analyse the EDF file. Why keep yourself captive to a proprietary file structure?
If you truly wish to breach the digital divide and have no reservations about embarking on a training learning curve and making the most of it, then go with a more intricate system that would allow you the most acquisition, analysis and configuration settings available. Get the most bang for your buck, and not just take the "best demo'd" system. Figure out what it is you wish to become as a lab by having a shiny spanking new digital PSG setup? Then look for both hardware and training to UNDERSTNAD the digitization of PSG, not just turn the shiny knobs and buttons, before you plop down any money on anything.

"It is a wise person who knows his limitation."

At least this is my $.02

Disclaimer: User of Rembrandt since 1996, first in U.S. Before that was a user of CNS.
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Postby bob » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:46 pm

Did the reps do an overnight demo for you? I work part-time for a Medcare distributor and when I demo Embla, Embletta or N7000 I always go to the customer's facility and perform an actual study on a patient for them overnight. This includes hookup, programming, unhook in the morning and review of the study - though I usually score it later at home and then send them the reports with my comments etc. It is very labor-intensive but it demonstrates in the best way possible how the system actually works in practice and also demonstrates that I really know how to use it and can actually back them up after purchase. It also demonstrates that I truly know the system through daily use and not just via others comments or on the "showroom floor".
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Rembrandt fan

Postby endymion » Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:05 pm

I have worked for 2 different sleep labs and have used Grass, SensorMedics, Sandman, and Alice over the course of my career. If I were buying a system today, and had to answer to no one but myself (i.e. doctor's preferences not considered) I would choose Rembrandt (Medcare). It seems to be the most technologically adavnced and to have the most features. (But it might take a little longer to learn how to use the software because of that fact.)

I'm just a tech; I don't sell anything or have any financial ties to any companies or distributors. Also, I've never actually used this product, but have seen multiple demos over the years.
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Equipment Purchase

Postby sleepyhead2 » Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:23 pm

Claude and everyone...thank you for the responses. Claude, wow, I can barely understand your jargon, but to answer what I think is your question, I do know what I want but it isn't just me or my lab to think of but the EEG group too. They have antiquated equipment (Techa?) that has to be replaced. Everything they see is "wonderful" because what they have now is a piece of C--p!

Our hosp. is pushing for combined equipment. Currently we use Sandman (4 yrs.old) 6.2 with old amps and headboxes. My personal preference is to keep what I have and upgrade it to 7.0 with new amps/headboxes, etc. Think for the lab it would be cheaper way to go. Less down time for training, etc.

My biggest problem as I see it is that it is hard to see everything since the reps paint very pretty pictures and as you can see, not many of us post very many pros or cons with what we use! For instance, why do you like your system? Ease of use, visual acuity, great tech support, training, deal of the century pricing?
What do you hate? Too complicated and hard to learn, lousy or unresponsive tech support, too expensive (every bell or whistle is an add on)? I just wanted to hear from those in the trenchs that can give very honest to the bone responses. This would be most appreciated! :)
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Please incluse Sensormedics & Rembrandt in the poll

Postby wiffle » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:24 am

Thank you
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Postby thom2my » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:13 pm

DOMINO, Somnomedics is my choice.

Wireless and Portable, Easy to use Software and Good graphics in Reports.
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Postby linuxgeek » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:52 pm

If you are integrating with an EEG lab, then I think Compumedics might be the best option.

Might be worthwhile checking out where the Spyder EEG software is from Sandman. It's EEG/Evoked Potential software that you can run on the SD32+ amps. I checked it out about 2 years ago. It seemed a bit dated, and I don't know where it is at currently.

I don't know much about Rembrandt but it sounds like a worthy system, altho I don't know if they have an EEG system that can use the same amps.

Personally, for sleep alone, I prefer Sandman. Mostly cause of the flexibility and ease-of-use of viewing/manipulating signals.
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Postby zeuscat03 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:14 am

I have used Senormedics, Somnologica, Grass, and Compumedics. I prefer the Compumedics system.
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Postby somnonaut » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:50 am

WHat of the comuemdics did you find appealing? The Nexus database manager, or the Profusion Sleep software???
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Postby slowdavesleep » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:29 pm

I just had the NY rep from Embla come down with an S7000 and acqusition system. We ran some mock studies and did some scoring for a couple days. The system is impressive. REMlogic merged the Somnologica Science software with clinical software, which is cool.

You can do CAP, FFT and export data in a ton of ways. It also has the best database I've seen on a sleep system and you don't have to export word or rtf documents to get things into the database. Custom forms that create database entries is a great feature and you can publish them to password protected webservers to e-mail questionaires or do a kiosk based questionaire in the lab. Flow signals looked great on the system, DC cals are easy to set up for our devices and the DC connectors are not terribly hard to make if you need to (a phone jack crimper would do the job). Also they have a library of preset devices with ranges already in.

The problems I had with the system were that you have to declare event types after you mark an event, I'm used to having a channel be an event type. So if I mark on the flow signal I get a RERA, events marked on the chest belt are hypopneas and events on the abd belt are apneas. The rep claimed the feature will be in the next version, however until I see it implemented I put no trust in it being correctly implemented. Also the staging set up was a bit confusing, this is probably due to the system being more focused on time base than epochs, which I actually see as a potential long term benefit because epochs are a holdover from paper.


I'm having Sandman send out a loaner system sometime in January, so we'll see how that goes.
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Postby MelllowAdam » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:10 am

I've only worked on Alice 5, it does everything we need it to do. Their tech support is kick ass, we have never had a problem with them.
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